(in response to jason's response to my first email about definition and motivation)
it's funny, i don't know if you intended it jason, but i think you helped me a bit with my understanding of "the thing" i'm trying to get at, though i don't know if i have much more articulation for it.
you said, "how do we engage an idea that is truly foreign to us?" and i think that's the reason why i can't come up with the articulation.
i think i have been engaging or have been engaged in something truly foreign to me, and i don't think it's possible yet to talk about it with clarity.
i think that imagine as a concept IS the engagement of thingS truly foreign...as a community it seems we were created on the foundation of moving into the unknown.
i'm reminded here of a "slogan" we had (that was probably the problem to begin with, that it was a slogan), "engage the mystery...discover identity."
i had no idea what the ramifications of that idea would be.
anyhow, if this thing i'm engaging is truly foreign, it's probably truly foreign to lots of people.
of course, it would be really great if we could just say, "hey, that's foreign to me, i don't think i get that," but the problem is this:
IT'S A TRULY FOREIGN CONCEPT FOR US TO SAY SOMETHING IS TRULY FOREIGN TO US.
WE ALL KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS, AND WE WON'T HANDLE THE RAMIFICATIONS: IT MEANS THAT I'M INCAPABLE OF GETTING "IT" RIGHT NOW.
BUT THAT'S NOT EVEN THE PROBLEM, THAT'S NOT REALLY WHAT IT MEANS, BECAUSE YOU SEE I JUST DEFINED SOMETHING ON THE SURFACE...I DEFINED FACTS, AND FACTS ARE NOT WHAT WE ALLOW TO KEEP US FROM MOVING FORWARD INTO THE UNKNOWN (THOUGH OUR VERSION OF THE FACTS ARE WHAT WE USE TO REMAIN STATIC).
THE FACTS DO NOT GIVE IMMEDIATE MOTIVATION TO THE PERSON MOVING OUT OF THE WAY OF THE BUS; THE FACTS ARE AT LEAST ONE OR TWO STEPS REMOVED FROM THE CAUSATION OF MOTION.
OUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE FACTS, THE DEFINITIONS ON AND OF THE SURFACE OF THE SITUATION, GIVE US SOMETHING TO ENGAGE ON A WHOLE NEW LEVEL; A DEEPER, MORE ABSTRACT AND INTANGIBLE LEVEL.
OUR UNDERSTANDING LEADS TO EMOTIONS, AND THOSE EMOTIONS LEAD TO MOTIVATIONS, AND THOSE MOTIVATIONS LEAD TO MOVEMENT.
WITHOUT AT LEAST THE THREAT OF BEING UNCOMFORTABLE (IN THE CASE OF THE BUS, IT'S ACTUALLY THE THREAT OF DEATH), THERE IS NO MOVEMENT.
NOW MAYBE WE SEE WHAT THE PROBLEM IS WHEN IT COMES TO ENGAGING TRULY FOREIGN IDEAS: WE HAVE SOMEHOW MAPPED REAL DISCOMFORT ONTO THE FEELINGS WE HAVE WHEN WE ARE INCAPABLE OF "GETTING SOMETHING" RIGHT NOW.
A PERCEIVED LACK OF VALUE EQUALS DISCOMFORT.
AND THE PERCEIVED PAIN IS SO REAL TO US THAT WE WILL EVEN LEAVE OFF THE "RIGHT NOW" AT THE END OF THAT PREVIOUS SENTENCE SO THAT WE LEAVE OURSELVES WITH ABSOLUTELY NO HOPE OR EVEN RESPONSIBILITY OF EVER MOVING FORWARD INTO THE UNKNOWN.
ok, enough capitols.
i think the more concise articulation i'm looking for is coursing through the puzzle i tried to create in that capitalized paragraph.
we are so addicted to raw knowledge, to the data and the facts, that it's damn near impossible to get at what meaning or belief really means, to get at what understanding means.
i almost don't want to articulate this stuff, because if i do, maybe i'll get distracted by the definition and the data and the facts the words represent...worse, maybe others will get distracted by them.
it's really difficult to even know what to do anymore, and while i'm a bit scared of what that means, my fear will not keep me from moving forward into this unknown.
if it's real, and it is because i can make at least some sense of it all, then i will engage it.
there's nothing that can ever keep me from moving forward unless i allow the fear of an idea to EQUAL the real pain of physical discomfort, unless i perceive my emotional value as a human being as the exact same thing as physical life and death.
if i do, then when i feel devalued, ie. scared because i don't understand something i'm thinking about like most intelligent people do, it will seem like a real bus that is very big, solid and heavy is coming straight for me, and I WILL RUN.
if i don't, then i will be scared, and i'll make all sorts of assumptions and interpretations about what i'm experiencing, doing everything i can to realize that there is no bus, that it's just a bunch of thoughts and ideas that i get to try to make sense of so the world can become more loving hopefully, and then i'll probably run away to safety and try to start a new dialogue group with a bunch of people that are also trying to see that there is no bus.
if i don't perceive my emotional value as a human as being exactly the same thing as physical life and death, then i'll try to talk about my incongruities, trying to be honest about the things inside of me that don't seem to line up, trying to be open in regards to my actions that seemingly shouldn't be happening, and i'll let you know before hand when i'm about ready to engage something that i do not believe is healthy according to the message i have spoken over the past years.
i hope all of this brings to mind the concept that we are made in god's image.
we don't have to worry about this shit anymore.
i'm sitting here thinking about it, and i keep saying to myself, "this is humility...i'm just talking about humility again."
if that's the case, then what an amazing concept!!
of course (maybe), the question becomes, "do we experience humility by engaging the possibility that the perception of our value is not equal to life and death, or do we engage the possibility that the perception of our value is not equal to life and death by experiencing humility?"
i can't put my finger on which happened or is happening first in my life...i would love to get all of your opinions on this.
it just seems like until we accept that our value as a person is not the same as life and death, whatever that means by the way, i'm pretty sure we won't really understand what anything means.
i hope this is helpful for you all...i think i've needed this for a long time.
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What is interesting to me is I have this thought of there is an idea out there. And this idea is something that is a new way to live. This way of living can be described so easily but description doesn't provide the deep resonation that comes from having experienced it. So yeah mike, I think that I have an idea that is foreign to me. I don't think that I want to describe it like I userstand it. It would seem like the thing I would be more interested in describing is my journey of exploring this path. I am sure along the way I will look to the place I want to go and use words to describe how I see myself currently as compared to where i want to be. But this is NOT me saying that I resonate with this foreign thing. It is just "getting my bearings". It reminds me of what my dad taught me one time.
ReplyDeleteWe were out in the woods hunting. We were walking together and exploring some gullies and such. My dad stopped me and said "hey son, part of being able to navigate through the woods is to be able to see where you are at. Every once in a while turn around and look behind you. Where you have come from looks a lot different when you look behind you instead of looking forward."
So I look behind me from time to time. I think this helps to see more of where I might be. I might still be in the middle of a forest. I still might not know how to get where the elk are, but I can try and see the journey better. Maybe that's more of what I want to say. I don't think I can really understand this foreign thing but I want to understand my journey of understanding.
So this takes me to the humility piece. It is an interesting idea. I think that when you are little you have the potential to not think your value is threatened by certain situations. That really has to do with what is core to your parents beliefs. But I use the word belief lightly. But from that place, it seems like you experience humility at some level. But all of this is so covered and lined STILL with justifications. So maybe just that taste is enough though to create the potential for you to desire and seek more.
But this comes back to this way of living i was talking about. The tastes, for me, are things that I am really trying to sit and savour. To not quickly dismiss it as the same taste I always taste. But i would only be looking for something beyond my current reality without that participation in humility.
i think i agree with you many levels, but i'm not sure i understand some of the other things you bring up about resonation.
ReplyDeletei think my point in the post is that it will not be resonation, depending on what you think resonation is, at the beginning of anything foreign coming into your space. maybe that's your point as well. i, however, would LOVE to talk about what resonation even means. of course, depending on the audience, that may be a foreign concept to talk about a word we may use so often, possibly without ever taking the time to seek out what it means. and in the foreignness of that context, one might be seeking what they think is resonation with this new idea of trying to figure out what their words mean, which might really just be a feeling of familiarity , in order to move forward into the reality of what the foreign concept means. i find it sort of tragic that we use words in such an unthoughtful manner. it seems to create so many vicious cycles. the issue is that we can't truly resonate emotionally with something that is truly foreign, and i believe it is possible and healthy to be able to engage things / people for which we do not have feelings of familiarity or comfort. when foreign concepts and people do not threaten my value, i will engage them.
anyhow, i will obviously need more, and it is possible i'm saying much of what you were saying in your response tim. just had to get the stuff down in writing to see if i understood.